The LocoFi System is NOT primarily a Dead Rail (Battery on Board, Power on Board) control and sound system! It only requires some type of pure DC input to the decoder/module to work.
Dead Rail uses battery power, an excellent pure DC input type, therefore the LocoFi System works well with Dead Rail.
I would really, really appreciate some input from LocoFi Users, and Potential Users, regarding the use of Dead Rail in HO scale model railroading.
I would like to know what is your biggest obstacle or objection to giving Dead Rail a try in HO scale?
I’ve gotten extremely little input or questions regarding Dead Rail using the LocoFi System either here on the forum, from my Website or from my YouTube videos.
Some possible obstacles or objections that I can think of are;
Going Dead Rail is too complicated with having to charge and maintain batteries.
Going Dead Rail is too dangerous when using Lithium-ion batteries.
Dead Rail locomotives have short running times.
Creating a HO battery car, with easy access to the battery, is too complicated.
Using a dedicated battery car is not very prototypical and I just don’t like the idea.
It just takes too much work to do and having a plug and play system would be better.
The cost in time and money is too high.
Lithium-ion batteries are too expensive.
I just prefer to use DC or DCC. Why?
I don’t know enough about using Dead Rail to make intelligent purchasing decisions.
There is almost no real, or useful information, on the Internet, or YouTube, regarding Dead Rail.
Dead Rail is mostly used in scales larger than HO and is too fiddly for HO.
It’s just not a “real” model railroading “thing”.
Hardly anyone in HO scale uses Dead Rail, so there is no deep knowledge base to draw from to learn more about it.
Dead Rail is just a passing fad.
I’m sure that there are other reasons or ideas about Dead Rail, that you could share, that would really help me understand why Dead Rail, with all of its advantages and benefits, is not really catching on.
I would appreciate a few moments of your time to comment about your thoughts regarding Dead Rail. You can comment here in the forum or you can send me an email. There is a link to my email address right at the top of my Webpage.
Thank you so very much,
Ken Myers
I have documented the build, thus far, on my Website, “A Journey Into HO Scale Model Railroading in the 21st Century”.
I have created a playlist for “My First HO Train Layout in a Long, Long Time” which has a series of 10 videos on YouTube, at this time.
I’ve also created a playlist for my “Making and Using a Portable Dead Rail Demonstration HO Layout Parts 1 – 10
Excellent question! We’ll take a stab at it.
For those who are already into DCC, there is little sense in converting to deadrail with all the costs involved.
That leaves us with DC only modelers. In our experience, the reasons are varied. It is a mixed bag of all the possibilities that you’ve mentioned. Although it’s easy to look at the negatives or cons, there are plenty of pros that come with deadrail. We guess unless there is a deal breaker con, here’s our pros for all the cons.
>Going Dead Rail is too complicated with having to charge and maintain batteries.
Is it more complicated than cleaning track and wheels?
>Going Dead Rail is too dangerous when using Lithium-ion batteries.
We carry at least one large Li based battery in our pocket almost whole day (our smartphone).
>Dead Rail locomotives have short running times.
However, they are very productive. There is no bitter experience of having to deal with power interruptions, shorts and other issues that come with track power.
>Creating a HO battery car, with easy access to the battery, is too complicated.
It’s a one time thing with probably low maintenance.
>Using a dedicated battery car is not very prototypical and I just don’t like the idea.
Consider this. “Power on board” is very prototypical just like the real trains carry their own fuel (except electric trains).
>It just takes too much work to do and having a plug and play system would be better.
Again, it’s a trade off between one time investment vs daily frustration.
>The cost in time and money is too high.
One time investment.
>Lithium-ion batteries are too expensive.
Not anymore.
>I just prefer to use DC or DCC. Why?
Battery is pure DC with no power interruption issues.
>I don’t know enough about using Dead Rail to make intelligent purchasing decisions.
There’s plenty information on this forum and Ken’s website.
>There is almost no real, or useful information, on the Internet, or YouTube, regarding Dead Rail.
There is in fact a lot of varied information that can make decisions difficult as opposed to a “manual”.
>Dead Rail is mostly used in scales larger than HO and is too fiddly for HO.
It’s certainly easier to work with in larger scales but not impossible in smaller scales.
>It’s just not a “real” model railroading “thing”.
We need a new perscpective to see alternative power types like the battery.
>Hardly anyone in HO scale uses Dead Rail, so there is no deep knowledge base to draw from to learn more about it.
Traditionally, analog DC only or DCC could not utilize battery power. Using radio control was either too expensive or not prototypical with battery power until newer systems like LocoFi came along.
>Dead Rail is just a passing fad.
We guess that it’s probably here to stay!
One thing we can assure you is that there are in fact plenty LocoFi deadrail users out there. For those who have simply decided to go that route, we find that most of them do not have enough information on how to go about doing this and we have been pointing them out to your website as an excellent resource. Maybe the information on your website is so detailed and clear that there is no more questions left to ask 🙂
-LocoFi Team
Thank you so very much for taking the time to share some of your ideas and responses to some of the points that I brought up. That is very much appreciated..
I’ve just recently found a combination using the safest, readily available, type of Lithium-ion battery, the cylindrical LiFePO4 14500 size, think AA size, and LocoFi for HO scale with a trailing battery car. It yields at least two hours of prototypical run time. I’ve not gotten the info on this system on my Website or my YouTube channel yet, but it’s in the works.
Prior to solutions like LocoFi, there wasn’t much available to justify switch to dead rail. If there’s no track power, then how do you control the locomotive. The only way is to remote control it. Prior technologies were either primitive like infrared and/or required multiple proprietary throttles and to get sound you had to buy two separate items, the sound decoder and the radio receiver that may be limited in functionality it can offer. The installation at best was successful for large scale only and made more sense too.
In the current scenario with LocoFi, it’s a lot easier to set up and operate. The only downside maybe for those installs that require a battery car to be permanently attached which is especially not prototypical if we were to consist some locomotives. Any out of the box solutions?
Working on the idea of using a second “dummy” loco as the battery car at the moment.
It was/is not unusual for other rolling stock to be used as a “handle” when the track cannot support the weight of the loco assigned to the job.
For ME, using a battery car, even though less “prototypical” is well worth it for the ease of track set up and everyday use with no track cleaning. I was able to get LocoFi, with its attached speaker and the battery into the tender of the IHC 2-8-0 Consolidation I am using, thus the tender IS the battery car.
True. With steam, a tender is always there. So is a usually a consist that runs the A-B combination. The B unit being a dummy to hold the battery car doesn’t break the prototypical aspect.
I’ve found a pair of GP18s that I believe should work. One is powered and the other is a “dummy”. Preliminary measurements indicate that the battery should fit in the dummy. Still lots to figurer out, but that’s what I’m investigating at the present.
Ken, I bought the LocoFi and am the process of learning how to connect it to a loco. A little background: I’m new to model trains. I flew RC airplanes for 50 years and finally go tired of them. I also race radio controlled model sailboats. Still needed a hobby to replace my airplanes so I committed to building a small HO layout using Dead Rail. I’m 82 years old and no longer am willing to get under tables to wired track, etc. I’m reading as much as I can from you site. There are so many more advantages to using Dead Rail vs Live Track I do not see how anyone just getting started, would choose Live Track. I’ll keep you posted as I go through my venture. Roger
Hi Roger,
I’m sure that you probably have, but I recommend that you not only check out my Dead Rail. YouTube videos but especially take some time to check out my Dead Rail Website at
I posted about a lot of dead ends, things that worked out and things that didn’t. Also things to do and not to do.
I am still into the RC plane “thing” as well but the weather is getting me down a bit as well as the Feds sticking their noses in on our plane hobby and lumping us in with drones.
Looking forward to hearing about your progress,
Ken
…am the process of learning how to connect it to a loco.
Although we have the install guides and plenty videos showing different kinds of installs including customer installs, please do not hesitate to reach out to us in case of any questions/difficulties. We are glad to help.
I like the arguments in favor of onboard battery power. I’m hesitant about doing it because I am a modular model railroader and locos often sit for months unused. That means that I would have to be diligent about keeping them charged regularly when not in use to maintain battery function. It would be easy to say that I would keep them charged but human nature would more likely make it a task to be put off, perhaps too many times, resulting in battery problems. If I had an often-used home layout I’d probably be using onboard batteries already.
In fact you need to discharge a LiPo type of battery to its nominal voltage for long term storage. That should survive a few months. The bigger challenge will be to make the tender easily removable for battery replacement during op sessions.
Admin was absolutely correct when he stated that the majority of Lithium-ion pouch batteries should be left at a storage charge if they are to be stored for a period of time greater than a day or two. Those types of batteries are also known as LiPo, Li-Po or LiPoly batteries, depending on the author.
It has been empirically demonstrated that leaving those types of batteries stored at a full charge, for extended periods, degrades the battery. Storage charge for LiPo batteries is considered to be between 3.7V and 3.8V.
Another reason to leave LiPo batteries at a storage charge is that it reduces the amount of potential energy in the battery, compared to a fully charged LiPo battery, and that’s a good reason in itself.
The vast majority of LiPo battery powered radio controlled (RC) aircraft users have adopted a “best practice” policy of removing the LiPo battery from the aircraft and either charging it in a nonflammable area or in a fire resistant container of some type. That is because the vast majority of thermal runaway incidences happen during charging and are mostly caused by charger operator error. That also means that easy access to the battery is required in the construction of the aircraft.
The early proponents of Dead Rail for HO scale used LiPo batteries.
Some of the early proponents
Stan Ferris – https://youtu.be/ryinlRLmx9A
Neil Erickson – https://youtu.be/V-MXNQcg4OU
KPack – https://youtu.be/uLlfPXIOXBk?list=PLUucV1iiwlwaXR4XFrBeqx9wCs9nshY2o
Steve Sherrill – https://youtu.be/6WdpCiD5fiY?list=PLUucV1iiwlwaXR4XFrBeqx9wCs9nshY2o
Pete Steinmetz – https://youtu.be/zMj67F4LwjA?t=4138
Dr. Geoff Bunza – https://www.scalemodelanimation.com/Articles/Battery_Powered_Models_in_HO_Scale.pdf
There are quite a few others.
The problem with most of the referenced systems is that whether they pick up charging power from a powered section of track or require a specific type of adjustable power supply, sometimes a hobby type charger, they need an extra component onboard to “oversee” and handle the charging.
I do not recommend using LiPo batteries in HO or larger scales.
Why I chose LocoFi for Dead Rail can be found here:
https://theampeer.org/HO/chose-locofi.html
The batteries and chargers that I am currently using, along with their “battery cars”, including a tender of a 2-8-0 Consolidation, can be found here:
https://theampeer.org/HO/battery-selection.html
I have an email link posted at the top of my Website page, “A Journey Into HO Scale Model Railroading in the 21st Century”, if anyone wishes to contact me directly.
Hope this helps some,
Ken
I’m currently (pun recognized) working on an old HO P2K SP PA-1 Daylight Scheme for services that used a single PA-1 for 3-5 car trains between Oakland Mole and Sacramento 4-5 times daily in the early 1950’s. I’ve set my SP 2-8-0 conversion aside for the moment. I am using nano plugs for the wiring connections which has been a small learning curve. Particularly creating a 3 nano-plug connection junction for the front and rear truck pickups. I had not planned to run this as dead rail but I have a dummy (yes one of the last) dummy PB-1 unit that I am interested in using as a battery car. Any ideas on how to switch between track and battery power without having to take the PA-1 shell off. I removed the old mother board from the P2K PA-1 and created a sheet plastic replacement structure to go over the exposed rear truck gears.
If the below is correct:
1. LocoFi module with speaker will reside in the A unit.
2. Battery will be located in B unit and connected to the A unit by means of a plug.
3. You do not plan to trickle charge the battery while track power is available.
4. You are okay to take the shell off of B unit to replace the battery.
then, all you need is a DPDT switch inside the A unit that may be exposed on the underside that will switch power between the battery and the track power.
I believe that the LocoFi Admin has provided you with the information that you need so as not to have to remove the shell from the PA-1.
I am a keep it super simple (KISS or K.I.S.S.) type guy and make my battery cars with removable shells for battery replacement.
If you’ve looked at any of my conversions, you will see that I do not charge the battery onboard.
I could be wrong, but it sounds as if you may be using Lithium Cobalt Oxide (LCO) pouch type batteries, which are commonly known as LiPo, Li-Po or Li-Poly batteries.
In the electrically powered model RC aircraft world, these types of batteries are almost never charged in the aircraft. They are removed, through some type of access hatch, and charged externally on a good LiPo charger. Why? Most thermal runaway incidents happen during the charging of these types of batteries.
A “good” LiPo charger uses active balancing to charge all of the cells. The small charging circuit, that I’ve seen used for Dead Rail, uses a passive balancing circuit and fairly low charge current.
There are also charge/discharge protection circuits available for LiPo batteries that prevent over-charging and over-discharging.
For me, this is overly complex, and just not what I wanted to do.
My wiring is very simple and consists only of the LocoFi module and the battery pack.
I have chosen to use cylindrical Lithium-ion chemistry type batteries that are charged, individually, in the up to four slots, of an external multi-chemistry charger.
The chemical composition of these batteries IS IMPORTANT and explained in great detail on my Website. For greater safety, I do NOT use Lithium Cobalt Oxide (LCO/ICR) cylindrical batteries, even though they are available.
I recently posted a Dead Rail conversion of an old IHC 2-8-0 Consolidation on my Website.
https://www.theampeer.org/HO/IHC-2-8-0.html
You may find that interesting.
Tonight, May 15, 2024, I will be on the New Tracks Modeling Zoom meeting presenting how I use LocoFi for Dead Rail. The meeting starts at 7:00 p.m. EST on YouTube.
The following link takes you to the New Tracks Modeling YouTube page where you will find the live meeting under the Live tab.
https://www.youtube.com/@NewTracks
The whole recorded meeting becomes available, starting the next day, on YouTube. NTM usually posts just some specific presentation portions from the meeting, so my segment may become available as a single YouTube video.
Ken Myers
I prefer DC because I am already wired for DC. Adding the bridge rectifier and capacitor to get clean DC is inexpensive and easy to install vs converting my engines to run on batteries.
Hi Raymond,
That makes sense to me, for sure.
I do have one recommendation for others that may read this reply. I really like going dead rail, but it sure is not for everyone. I would suggest trying just one dead rail installation using an inexpensive loco, or one that you seldom use, and see which system you truly start using most often. It may or may not be the dead rail system, but at least you’d given it a try.
Ken
